Good Movies That Aren't Popular But Are Must-Sees

[SympathysSilhouette]

The idea of this thread is not promoting big, recent releases, but either smaller, independent movies that fewer people might have heard of yet, or older classics that might not get that much attention any more.

My list, for now:

Paths of Glory (1957)

One of the most powerfull war movies I have ever seen, and yet, a lot of people seem oblivious to it.

It really grips you and shows you the absurdity of war in all it's ugliness. It's even more remarkable, if you consider the herioc tone most, if not all of it's contemporary war movies had.

Stalag 17 (1953)

The ultimate POW camp movie, imho. I prefer it to the Great Escape even. It's probably closer in tone to Hart's War. The characters are less heroic than they are portrayed in the Great Escapes, which makes them more real, and believable.

In the Mood for Love (2000)

Great movie about two lonely souls that slowly forge a relationship after their spouses "work late" and leave them alone (to cheat on them). The acting, narrative and style are all of great quality. Chow and Su are one of my favorite on screen couples.

After life (1998)

One of my all time top five movies. How do you know that a movie is great? If it sticks in your mind for days and weeks after you saw it. When you leave the theatre after seeing this one, you will wonder yourself "what is my most precious memory?"

The movie is basically about 20 or so people who are in a 'station' between life and death. They are informed that they are to choose one memory, that will be then reenacted and put on film, as a way to preserve it. That one memory will be all that they will have left after they leave for the afterlife. They will forget about everything else. It will, in a way, become their reality. Their "heaven", if you will.

Now, if I read the above pitch, I would probably already be intrigued enough to run to the theatre of the video store. But that's just me. But the execution is perfect, the tone and tempo are impeccable, and above all, the people and their memories are moving.

The movie as a whole is just very warm, sincere, and at times, deeply moving.

I'm not going to ruin the movie by telling what memories people choose, but I'll just add this: some of their choices show that the simplest of moments can hold the most beauty.

[Baby]

ah i love this thread.

unfortunately, i didn't pay attention and i created a thread for movies like Bran Upon the Brain and i know people won't reply... but i just wanted to make discover them.

Werckmeister Harmonies (2000)

hugarian movie of Bela Tarr

plot :

The story takes place in a small provincial town on the Hungarian Plain. The weather is bitterly cold (twenty degrees below zero) but no snow has fallen. Despite this, hundreds of bewildered people stand around a circus trailer (or corrugated iron box) in the main square, waiting to see the main attraction - the stuffed carcass of a whale. The people composing this faceless, ragged crowd have come from distant parts of the country as well as neighbouring settlements, and the strange state of affairs — the presence of strangers, the extreme cold — is disturbing the order of the small town. Relationships are changing, and some ambitious people feel they can take advantage of the situation; while others who are more passive fall into even deeper uncertainty. The unbearable tension is brought to a head by the figure of the Prince, who is hiding behind the whale; his mere appearance is enough to unleash destructive emotions. The ensuing apocalypse spares no one - not the scientifically-minded outsiders, the teenage enthusiasts, the philistines who care only about their own safety, nor the family — nothing historically privileged by European culture

there is no trailer so i put a video of the opening scene

[Baby]

Ezra (2007)

Nigerian/french/austrian movie by the nigerian director Newton Aduaka.

plot :

In the year 2000, it was alleged that some 300,000 children were serving as soldiers in armed conflicts in more than thirty countries around the world. Nearly 120,000 of these were allegedly engaged in various conflicts on the African continent.

EZRA is a factional tale inspired by the Sierra Leonean conflict. It is centred on one event: a drug fuelled atrocious attack on a village by rebel soldiers. The jigsaw puzzle of what occurred that night is reconstructed through the testimonies of three witnesses: Ezra, an excombatant, his sister Onitcha, a mute, and Cynthia, Ezra's fellow exsoldier.

What is supposed to be reconciliation soon becomes a trial, as Onitcha chooses this as the arena to reveal a secret she has kept from her brother.

trailer :

[Baby]

XXY (2007)

argentinian movie by Lucia Puenzo

The film's title is a reference to Klinefelter's syndrome, also known as XXY Syndrome, a condition in which males have an extra X sex chromosome. However, the main character does not display Klinefelter's syndrome.

Plot :

Alex (Efron) is a 15-year-old intersex person, with both male and female genitals, who has been living as a girl and using medicines to suppress masculine features, such as a beard, and to attempt to have more feminine features. However, recently Alex has stopped taking her meds.

Alex's parents moved with her from Argentina to a village by the sea in Uruguay, to avoid society's negative stigma. Her father, Néstor Kraken (Darín), is a marine biologist who has written a book on sexuality and makes a living treating wounded animals found by fishermen. Her mother, Suli (Bertuccelli), invites friends from Argentina: a surgeon, his wife and teenage son Álvaro (Piroyansky). The purpose, unknown to Néstor and Alex, is to discuss the possibilities of a sex-change operation.

Alex bluntly tells Álvaro that she would like to have sex with him. Alex seduces Álvaro and begins to have anal intercourse with him (with her in the deliverer's part), but they are interrupted when Néstor catches sight of them through an open door. When Alex later apologizes, Álvaro admits that he liked it.

Three boys from the village forcibly pull down Alex's pants to see her genitals. Néstor realizes that reporting this to the police would cause the whole village to know about Alex's condition. However, Alex decides that it does not matter. Alex also decides that she does not want to resume taking medicines or have an operation.

Trailer :

[Frederick]

Sof Shavua B'Tel Aviv

Maybe not must-see but its good and contemporary.

[Baby]

i watched an extract on youtube and it's seem to be good

The Wheel (1993)

Bangladeshi movie of the director Morshedul Islam.

plot :

This Bengali drama offers a parable of trust, dignity as it follows the journey of an ox-cart driver and his companion who must seek the final resting place of an unwanted passenger. The two took on their guest while hauling a load of rice past a rural health-care center. The center workers forcefully coerce the driver to take a recently deceased corpse to a distant town. They take it there, but are dismayed to find no one there to claim the body. They then take it to another village that has a similar name. Again, there is no one there to bury the corpse. At first, the two resented their quest. They felt nothing for the dead one in the cart, but eventually they come to respect him in a distressed sort of way. It is they who finally bury him in an isolated place

sorry. no video, no picture.

even if this movie won many awards and it is in the list of the 15 best bangladeshi movies, it stays totally unknown.

[Baby]

there is a while, Federick and I talked about the Shoah, the book Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil by Hannah Arendt and the death sentence in Israel and it remind me there was a movie inspired by Hannah Arendt's book.

fortunately, i finally found it

this is not exactly a movie, it's more a history documentary but in the end this is still very interesting!

The specialist, portrait of a modern criminal (1999)

black and white french movie by Rony Brauman and Eyal Sivan

A German worker in the upper echelons of the Nazi party, Adolf Eichmann was in charge of the expulsion of Jews, Slovenians, and Gypsies from the Reich between 1938 and 1941, and then of their deportation from Europe to the death camps. In 1960, he was captured by the Israeli secret service in Argentina. His subsequent trial in Jerusalem was one of the first public events recorded on video. Filmmakers Rony Brauman and Eyal Sivan have assembled excerpts of this footage to create a tightly edited and compelling documentary about a bureaucrat who has fulfilled his duties during a time of war. Eichmann steadfastly insists that his part in the Holocaust was neither active or evil: he was only following orders.

At the outset of the trial, the prosecutor calls Eichmann an inhuman beast, but the thin balding man in a black suit who is taking copious notes and nervously interlaces his fingers during the course of the trial doesn't seem to fit that description. Even during the tensest moments and facing direct accusations by the prosecution who wants to see him hanged, he refuses to show remorse or culpability for his actions.

The film is fascinating for Eichmann's resoluteness. By the nature of his answers, he proves himself to be the quintessential bureaucrat of Kafka's worst nightmare. Perhaps the most striking feature about Eichmann is just how ordinary he seems--not a monster, not a mad thinker, but an efficient man who sat behind a desk, processing forms. Based on Hannah Arendt's famous account of the trial, "The Specialist: Portrait of a Modern Criminal" offers profound insight into how the Holocaust was facilitated by bureaucracy and a subservient mindset that allowed people like Eichmann to claim ignorance and shuffle responsibility for atrocious crimes around like so many carbon-copy forms.

------------------------

When Adolph Eichmann was brought to trial in Israel in 1961, the event was broadcast live under the direction of documentarian Leo Hurwitz. That footage, over 500 hours of it, has been locked away in the decades since. Eyal Sivan, inspired by Hannah Arendt's book Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil, received permission to dig through the footage for a concentrated portrait of the trial and the man. The balding, middle-aged Eichmann looks as scary as an accountant as he snaps to attention for every question, answering with a "Yawohl" before reading from records or repeating his mantra: "I had to obey... I was a soldier." Painting himself as nothing but a bureaucrat with a ruthless efficiency ("I does not mean Eichmann," he claims, trying to distance himself from the odious orders he signed), the only emotion he exhibits is a terrifying pride in his meticulous service: "I was never reprimanded," he offers by way of explanation. Though Sivan compiled this film from documentary recordings, he finds some haunting images: the reflection of newel footage on the glass cage that protects Eichmann as he blankly watches the record of atrocities, the concentration camp tattoo on the arm that reaches into frame to play evidence from a tape recorder, the bland, emotionless face of Eichmann that dominates the film. Far from an "objective" record of the event, The Specialist indeed captures the "banality of evil" in Eichmann, and that's genuinely frightening.

--Sean Axmaker

[Frederick]

I will seek this out, Baby!

[SympathysSilhouette]

Wow, someone dug up a four year old thread of mine!

[Baby]

that's me! there is an expiry date ?

by the way, this thread is in the "top" threads (on the first page) since few months...

[Baby]

The Last Summer of La Boyita (2009)

argentinian movie by Julia Solomonoff

the movie will be at (few) theatre in september but the trailer seem to be good and remind me a bit XXY.

Young Jorgelina feels estranged from her boy-crazy older sister, who has entered adolescence and doesn't want to hand around with little kids anymore. Finding refuge in their Boyita camper-van, Jorgelina travels with her father to the countryside, where her lifelong playmate Mario is undergoing some unexpected changes of his own.

[Michael*]

Perhaps must see is a bit strong, but one that I enjoyed recently was an Australian film called "Two Hands" (with Heath Ledger in his first leading role). A black comedy about a bunch of inept criminals. Very good stuff.

[donbot]

^Great movie!

A couple of other great Aussie movies that not many people have probably seen:

Gettin' Square

The Rage in Placid Lake

[Kevork89]

Another one of my favourite Aussie films is 2:37

Such an amazing movie with fantastic performances. Definitely watch it

[Baby]

this is a classic of silence movie but i feel obligate to post it because i'm deeply in love with it

Metropolis (1927)

german movie of Fritz Lang

plot :

The film is set in the massive, sprawling futuristic mega-city Metropolis, where society is divided into two classes: one of planners and management, who live high up in luxurious skyscrapers and one of workers, who live and toil underground. The city was founded, built, and is run by the autocratic Joh Fredersen. Like all the other sons of the managers of Metropolis, Fredersen's son Freder lives a life of luxury. One day, as he is cavorting in the Eternal Gardens, he notices that a beautiful girl has appeared with many children of the workers. She is quickly shooed away, but Freder becomes infatuated with her and follows her down to the workers' underworld. There, he experiences first-hand the horrors of the workers' life, and is alarmed and disgusted when an enormous machine, known as the M-Machine, violently explodes and kills dozens of workers. In the smoke, Freder envisages the M-Machine as Moloch, a monstrous deity to which the hapless workers are sacrificed.

Freder returns to the New Tower of Babel, a massive skyscraper owned by his father. There, he confronts his father about the workers' plight and the accident at the M-Machine. Grot, foreman of the Heart Machine, arrives to inform Fredersen of several mysterious maps which have been found in workers' pockets. Because he has not heard both of these bits of news from Josaphat, his clerk, Fredersen fires him, and also orders a spy (credited as the "Thin Man") to tail his son. Outside Fredersen's office, Freder thwarts Josaphat's suicide and persuades him to help with his quest to help the workers. After instructing Josaphat to wait for him at his apartment, Freder descends to the workers' underworld again and meets a worker named Georgy, #11811. Freder persuades Georgy to exchange clothes with him, go to Freder's apartment, and let Freder work at the machine. However, Georgy finds wads of money in the pockets of Freder's clothing and goes instead to Yoshiwara, the city's red-light district, to pursue a girl in an adjacent automobile. While Georgy enjoys a night of wild parties, Freder becomes delirious working at the machine, having never worked a day in his life, and begins having visions of being crucified on the factory clock.

Fredersen, wondering about the papers found, decides to consult the scientist Rotwang, his old collaborator, who lives in an old house contained in the lower levels of the city. The two were once friends but became rivals over the love of a woman, Hel, who eventually chose Fredersen. Hel died giving birth to Freder, leaving both Rotwang and Fredersen heartbroken and loathing each other. Rotwang's love for Hel and his hatred of Fredersen remains as strong as ever. After Frederson notices Rotwang now has a mechanical hand, Rotwang introduces Fredersen to a Machine-Man he has constructed, to which he intends to give the image of Hel. When Fredersen, seeks Rotwang's counsel about the papers (despite knowing the Scientist is more than a little insane, he still knows Rotwang is a genius), Rotwang explains that they are maps to the 2,000-year old catacombs that are deep under the lowest levels of the workers' city. The two enter the catacombs and reach the workers' meeting-place. From a gap in the rocks, they observe the beautiful Maria preaching to the workers (with the disguised Freder among them) about the Tower of Babel and about how they must wait for the coming Mediator. Her theme is that the heart must be mediator between the head (the planners) and the hands (the workers).

At the end of the sermon, the disguised Freder reveals his true identity to Maria and tells her that he must be the Mediator she has been waiting for. Fredersen, who has turned away in thought, sees none of this; Rotwang, however, sees everything. Fredersen instructs Rotwang to give the machine-man the image of Maria in order to sow discord between her and the workers. Rotwang acquiesces but has ulterior motives, intending to use the machine-man to ruin Fredersen's life. While Fredersen returns to his office, Rotwang chases Maria through a tunnel up into his house, capturing her. Freder, hearing her screams, attempts to rescue her, but he is imprisoned in the house.

Rotwang transforms the machine-man into a double of Maria. He then commands it to destroy Fredersen, his city, and his son. Downstairs, a door opens, allowing Freder to ascend a staircase. He encounters Rotwang, who tells him that Maria is not here; rather, she is with Fredersen. When Freder arrives at his father's office, he sees the machine (which now resembles Maria) embracing his father. Freder suffers a mental breakdown and collapses. During his convalescence that night, he hallucinates vividly about passages from the Book of Revelation and death's descent upon the city.

Rotwang demonstrates the machine-man's abilities to Fredersen by dressing it up as an erotic dancer at the Yoshiwara, where it drives the sons of the owners into homicidal fits of sexual jealousy. The body count is enormous; meanwhile, the machine-man also visits the workers' city and encourages the workers to rebel. Freder arrives and tells the workers that this Maria is a fraud. The workers instead recognize him as Fredersen's son and attempt to kill him. In the fight, Georgy tries to defend Freder but is accidentally stabbed. The workers storm the M-Machine and destroy the Heart Machine, the city's power generator. This results in a complete hydraulic breakdown. Maria, after Frederson confronts Rotwang about the events of the night, escapes and makes her way to the workers city. The city's reservoirs overflow and inundate the workers' city to the brim, threatening to drown the children of the workers. However, the children are saved by Maria, Freder, and Josaphat in a heroic rescue.

The workers, realizing what they have done, and believing that they have killed their children, blame Maria. Under Grot's leadership, they dash to the upper city to pursue the real Maria. They run into the reveling crowds from the Yoshiwara and meet the owners' sons, led by the machine Maria. In the ensuing confusion, Maria escapes and the machine-man is tied to a stake and burned. The flames burn off the likeness of Maria and reveal the machine-man's true form to the crowd.

Meanwhile, Rotwang, who has broken down completely and believes her to be Hel, corners Maria in a cathedral. Freder climbs up to the roof and battles Rotwang as Fredersen watches in horror. Rotwang falls to his death, and Freder and Maria return to the street. Freder takes his first step as mediator, overcoming the mutual reluctance of Grot and Fredersen to join hands, thus beginning a period of unity and reform.

this scene is one of the best things i saw in my whole life

[Cult Icon]

there is a while, Federick and I talked about the Shoah, the book Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil by Hannah Arendt and the death sentence in Israel and it remind me there was a movie inspired by Hannah Arendt's book.

fortunately, i finally found it

Hannah Arendt's books are good, but to really understand this period (If you haven't explored) I would recommend studying the SS State and social histories of the Third Reich. There are about half a dozen that are really instructive on many levels. The knowledge and linkages acquired can even help in understanding modern global affairs. "Masters of Death" and Heinz H.'s "The SS" are instructive to understanding the institutional culture and the "new standards" of morality they created. And how they, when properly socialized, could do such amazingly horrific things in a somewhat casual way while justifying it by utilizing their own so-called "logic". To understand it further, study Prussian culture (The Iron Kingdom, Clark) which created the foundation for the rise of Nazism and the German military machine.

Then study modern economic & social history, and understand how far humanity's progressed. (It's good to balance things out, otherwise you might end up with a darkened worldview) Study the American & allies way of war, which is business/geopolitically (power politic) oriented and is much more nuanced & with relatively less bloodshed. As a teen, I studied these things myself under the guidance of my father but I don't know how someone approaching these materials for the first time would react psychologically.

Anyway, these issues are very dark and the graphic -it will introduce new dimensions of thinking that are unavailable to most people. You need a strong constitution and take it in doses.

[Baby]

i know what the SS and the 3 reich are. i didn't read Eichmann in Jerusalem because i thought the book's cover was pretty... particularly when you know eichmann was the lieutenant colonel of the SS! as i also know who were people like Amon Goeth, Anne Frank and Leni Riefenstahl or family Bush made some business with nazi and built a part of their fortune because of hitler or Hugo Boss made the nazi uniforms. and i learnt all this stuff by myself. alone.

maybe it should be nice to stop to think i'm stupid and talk to me like i was a kid. i know i missed years of school and i've been obligated to stop it when i was 16 years old but i don't think i'm a totally ignorant blonde girl of 24 years old. <_<

[Cult Icon]

i know what the SS and the 3 reich are. i didn't read Eichmann in Jerusalem because i thought the book's cover was pretty... particularly when you know eichmann was the lieutenant colonel of the SS! as i also know who were people like Amon Goeth, Anne Frank and Leni Riefenstahl or family Bush made some business with nazi and built a part of their fortune because of hitler or Hugo Boss made the nazi uniforms. and i learnt all this stuff by myself. alone.

maybe it should be nice to stop to think i'm stupid and talk to me like i was a kid. i know i missed years of school and i've been obligated to stop it when i was 16 years old but i don't think i'm a totally ignorant blonde girl of 24 years old. <_<

I don't know the specifics about your personal life and I am addressing you as a woman. You are a very interesting & humane woman, knowledgeable about many unusual things and I have always enjoyed writing to you and looking at the artwork you take time to post. It is not out of disrespect for you that I wrote my previous post rather cautiously. Masters of Death- for instance is about the specially indoctrinated, trained & picked units of men that followed the German Army into the East to personally execute over a million and a half people with poison gas vans and handheld weapons. Even if you were a 50 year old man I would have written the same post. All of it is abjectly horrifying and can effect someone strongly. It's a very 'negative' subject you know?

-Wages of Destruction (Economic history- details how German government prepared and then went for broke in this war)

-Coming of the Third Reich & Third Reich in Power (social history and national institutions)

-Hitler's Empire (social history and national institutions)

Anyway, Baby: In the future I will try to organize my thoughts to you in a manner you prefer. (Y)

[COP11]

I loved Ezra!

And Amores Perros was excellent too.

[Baby]

i know what the SS and the 3 reich are. i didn't read Eichmann in Jerusalem because i thought the book's cover was pretty... particularly when you know eichmann was the lieutenant colonel of the SS! as i also know who were people like Amon Goeth, Anne Frank and Leni Riefenstahl or family Bush made some business with nazi and built a part of their fortune because of hitler or Hugo Boss made the nazi uniforms. and i learnt all this stuff by myself. alone.

maybe it should be nice to stop to think i'm stupid and talk to me like i was a kid. i know i missed years of school and i've been obligated to stop it when i was 16 years old but i don't think i'm a totally ignorant blonde girl of 24 years old. <_<

I don't know the specifics about your personal life and I am addressing you as a woman. You are a very interesting & humane woman, knowledgeable about many unusual things and I have always enjoyed writing to you and looking at the artwork you take time to post. It is not out of disrespect for you that I wrote my previous post rather cautiously. Masters of Death- for instance is about the specially indoctrinated, trained & picked units of men that followed the German Army into the East to personally execute over a million and a half people with poison gas vans and handheld weapons. Even if you were a 50 year old man I would have written the same post. All of it is abjectly horrifying and can effect someone strongly. It's a very 'negative' subject you know?

-Wages of Destruction (Economic history- details how German government prepared and then went for broke in this war)

-Coming of the Third Reich & Third Reich in Power (social history and national institutions)

-Hitler's Empire (social history and national institutions)

Anyway, Baby: In the future I will try to organize my thoughts to you in a manner you prefer. (Y)

i know you didn't say it about my age because i'm sure you certainly didn't know it even if you knew i'm a young adult.

i'm a frank person so as usually i would tell what i think about the situation. maybe i'm wrong but i have the feeling you reply to this thread only because of the arguments we had there are a couple of months. i wasn't come on bellazon since april and i have the feeling that now you absolutely wanna show me i was wrong about you when i told you i had the feeling i was talking with a bad imitation of encarta encyclopedia. and of course the first thing you tell me since this argument is a list of books i should read. so i think one of us has missed some elements... and when i say have the feeling you talk to me like i was a kid, it included our old conversations and as i already told you i'm the kind of person who enjoy 10 times more listen paople talking about their own experiences than hear book's quote. as i already say sometimes it's better to talk with a marginal c*nt than with a conformist intelligent. the first can always surprise you, the second doesn't (and i think that's why i'm such a big fan of z movies)

about the WWII yes this is a serious subject but should i say A this is not the first war, so kill people because of hate or power is not something new or specific the to nazis and B nazism is not the first doctrine. there are so many sects all around the world who allowed terrific thing like pedophilia, rapes, suicides or murders. just watch al qaida or the raelien movment. raelian are more than 1 millions of people and they legalized pedophilia and have commun "masturbation" where they are all together and touch their armpits, sex and anus in front of a mirror and then smell and lick their fingers. they pray E.T and give their money to rael to buy new race cars. they often use psychologists to find their new potential members. you go at the psychologist because you're depressive and in the end, few weeks later you're in a sect

when i was younger i already visited this kind of place. when you go there these people are very friendly and let you go where you "want". so you have the feeling this is a cool place very peace and love. - they also sold gifts like home made honey. the fact is, i always refused to eat it. i never saw bees in their garden but there were kamasutra gravure everywhere and their honey was super strange white and doesn't smelt honey. i'm sure it was sperm - anyway, they know how attract people, listen them and give answers and solutions. they understand your weakness and use it to manipulate you.

the fact is, during the 30's germany was in crisis and people needed a guilty and here there is nothing new. since centuries people do the same and they still do in third world countries or even in civilised countries with gang wars. killed people because of money and racisme because they come from another district and this kind of thing won't stop because their boss enjoy these wars. if they was a single boss, in the end everybody could grow up and threatened his position of leader but the gang members rarely understand it and their are ready to kill and torture someone without regret just because this is what they should do and they enemy won't have pity and everything come from it. pity.

jews have always been know as a very close community and this link created angst, hate and frustation. they were the answer, the guilty of this misery and hitler was very charismatic person. but opposite to 95% of normal politician, he believed in the things he said. he was motivate and ready to act. unfortunately at the beginning some important people didn't understood it.

anyway the 30's very a very special periode. there were planes, cars, phones and radios. i means, technology was here, enough important to communicate and make a big mess but very limited so not enough important to share different opinions.

by the way when you know all the billaird of people who believe in god that they never saw, or never proved of their existance and a part of them through history have been ready to die and kill for it, you can understand how hilter could get important. he was like a god. he brought answer but opposite to god, he was there, alive. as i already said, fame is the religion of the XX century. people always look for answer, always need affection, someone you could love them, cheer them, give the feeling they are important and take care of them. now people love famous people as they loved god.

i'm often in the music industry and i already watched fans/stalker. this is very special world but more the person is famous and more they can attract a psychopath. i mean, someone who only think about himself and his obsession and who doesn't put limits. as i already explained obsessed come from stimulation and stimulation is increased by community because when you're a single man, it's always easier to be demotivate and stop everything but when you're in a community, you often become friends with other members, so they share they same opinion, passion and the day where you would like to stop everything, they always try to change your mind. as i already said, more there are members and more there are chance to have a psychopath into your crew so they will be the kind of poeple who will push the limits and they often bring another people in their trip and then if they aren't stopped, then "all" the crew do the same and in the end, they banalised their acts and i think that's why hilter and nasi has been so violent. because of the important number of nazi member and the gradual violence

there are few years ago, i saw fans spent one night in front of the concert hall to be at the first row of the show of their favorite band. another fans were jalouse and started to do the same. because of it, another fans decided to sleep 3 or 4 days before the show in front of the concert hall to be the first. then the 3 days get 5, the, a week, 2 weeks even 3 weeks in the winter with temperature near of 0°C. there are 3 years ago i saw something like 100 people ready to sleep 3 weeks in the street, during the winter just to be at their f*cking first row. i was furious and because there were teenagers and i learnt they said to their parents they were in vacations (because it was the vacations) and all the teens said the same and in fact they were in front of concert hall. he called to police to make them move but these jerks just moved to the park in front of the concert hall and slept there. result 2 teenagers have been raped in the park (and fortunately nobody has been seriously sick). the day before the show there were more than one thousand to sleep in the street. (one year later i learnt one of the girl one the first row has pissed on her during the show to stay where she was and there were something like 400 people who fainted during the gig!) 4 months later, in june 2008, is aw fans of the same band ready to sleep one month in front of the concert hall for the next gig. they got worst because before there were always fans who rented hotel rooms. they left the place where they stay in the street and they went to the toilets and took a shower but there they refused to move. i means, they didn't take shower and they put a towel around their hips and they pissed, sh*ted; put their tampons in bottles of water.

fortunately it was their last show and the band took a break to record new stuff.

anyway, even if all this can sound crazy, because of the fan community, they banalized their act because they all do the same, so for them their act were normal and when they also hurted another fan with lighters, keys and thought it was normal.

and for the nazi it was the same. hate has been stimulate by community and because of it they banalised their act (like people from gangs do). in the end, murder and torture can get a kind routine. but the fact is, it included so many people than everybdoy weren't enough strong to tolerate it and that's why they created gaz chambers. i was a way to cut this reality, stay far away of the reality of their crimes.

sorry if i wrote a long message but i don't think that's a problem and i just answer to your message. i'm the kind of person who prefer developpe my own thought, idea even if they can be sh*tty than quote somebody. quote or books' tittle absolutely don't interest me (and more particularly books i don't know so i'm like obligated to trust the person - but here i even can't really trust you because your advice are empty of real opinion - and i won't lose my time to read 1000 different books who all say more or less the same thing to say "i know".) because they don't reflect people mind and their real way to think. and it's as easy for someone with "sh*tty musicial tastes to pretend he loves the beatles as it as easy for a stupid person to quote einstein.